My soul clings to you,Your right hand upholds me.
Jehovah Witness’ Question
The last question you asked in your email is answered in these verses. Notice also that Jesus refers to the Father as God and that he (God) has put his seal of approval on Jesus. Can you explain how Jesus – if he were God would need God’s approval?
John 6:25 When they found him across the sea, they said to him: “Rabbi, when did you get here?” 26 Jesus answered them: “Most truly I say to you, you are looking for me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate from the loaves and were satisfied. 27 Work, not for the food that perishes, but for the food that remains for everlasting life, which the Son of man will give you; for on this one the Father, God himself, has put his seal of approval.”
Response
You asked the question, “Notice also that Jesus refers to the Father as God and that he (God) has put his seal of approval on Jesus. Can you explain how Jesus – if he were God would need God’s approval?”
Before I can answer that question, we have to clarify the question. You emphasized the word “approval”. However, this word is not in this passage of scripture, it was added. It ought to read, “For on him God the Father has set his seal.” So, the question, should be what does it mean for the Father to set his seal on the Son? I don’t want to overlook your question, though, because even though the actual word “approval” is not in the text, I do believe Jesus did get the approval of the Father, and it’s not a way out there interpretation, and there is a sense of that in this passage. Also, the specific word “approval” may not be in this passage, but we do read elsewhere, God the Father stating, “This is my Son in whom I am well pleased.” And Jesus says, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.” Even though the passage you cited does not talk about “approval” directly other scriptures do, so I will address that as well.
First, we need to address what the statement means, “For on him God the Father has set his seal.” So what is this word “set . . .seal”. In John, it is used one other time, “Whoever receives his testimony sets his seal to this, that God is true” (John 3:33). In 2 Colossians 1:20-22 “For all the promises of God find their Yes in him. That is why it is through him that we utter our Amen to God for his glory. And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.” In Ephesians 1:13,14 it states, “In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guaranteed of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.”
Jesus is “the Messiah”, “the Christ”, or in English the “the Anointed One”. The idea of being anointed by God and being sealed by God (God setting his seal on you) is a confirmation of God’s calling on that person. Jesus in this passage is saying, you are searching for me because you see the signs I have done, you want your bellies filled with food, but you ought to be seeking me because I am the bread of life. Just as when mana was given to the Israelites not in hopes that their bellies would be filled, but in hopes that they would look to the promises of God, so too, if they are pursuing Jesus in hopes for their bellies to be filled then they have missed the point of scripture when it says, “”He humbled you and let you be hungry, and fed you with manna which you did not know, nor did your fathers know, that He might make you understand that man does not live by bread alone, but man lives by everything that proceeds out of the mouth of the LORD.” Jesus is saying I have fulfilled this promise. Jesus is everything that proceeds out of the mouth of the LORD by which a man lives. He is the true mana and those who believe in him will have life. And he is the Word. Peter gets this transition from mana and bread to the words of eternal life – “Simon Peter answered him, ‘Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life, and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.’”
What Jesus is saying here is profound. He is claiming to be the Messiah. Many men had made that claim before Jesus, while Jesus was on earth, and after his ascension. But of all those claims, only Jesus could claim, “For on [me] God the Father has set his seal.” Jesus often said that even though his claims and words were true, that it wasn’t his word alone that confirmed who he was, the Father confirmed that Jesus was the Messiah. Whoever you would think the Messiah was to be whether a man, an angel, or God for us to be able to know that they were the Messiah the seal of God must be on them, without that we could not know who the Messiah was. Only the true Messiah would have the anointing and seal of God on him. And this I assume we agree on – Jesus alone was anointed and sealed as our Messiah by God the Father. Therefore, his claim the be the Messiah, the Bread of Life, the good Shepherd, the way, the truth, and the life can be trusted, because God the Father, who does not lie, has placed his seal on Jesus confirming and proclaiming that Jesus is our Messiah. He is the one Moses and the prophets proclaimed would come as our Messiah. Or you could say God the Father has given his seal of approval confirming Jesus is the Messiah who was promised and through whom men are to be saved. So the Father is confirming he is the one we are to believe in in order to do the work of God.
Even though this passage does not address what I think your asking, which is “why would God need God’s approval if he is God? Or why would God need to be subordinate to God?” (If I am not summarizing your question adequately, let me know), I still want to address your question, because I do believe that there are passages that show that Jesus looked to God for approval before acting. And that is a fair question. For example, as I quoted above, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise” (John 5:19). Jesus did nothing without the Father’s approval. We have already established the Jesus is the Messiah, He is the Christ, and this is confirmed by both the word of Jesus and the word and seal of the Father.
You also wrote that this “approval” should answer my last question in my last letter. And you are correct.
Here it is that question: What did Jesus do for us as our Messiah? What does he accomplish for us? Does Jesus fully restore us into a covenantal relationship with God?
The answer to this question, is also the answer to your question of why Jesus needed the approval of the Father or why it is necessary that he was subordinate to the Father.
We often focus on the fall of Adam and it is ultimately where all men fell. Yet, even after the fall God pursued mankind, calling them to himself. He established covenantal relationships with Noah, Abraham, Moses, David that would point to their ultimate fulfillment in Jesus. But as Adam failed so did every man of faith in the scripture. Noah soon after getting of the ark, got drunk. Moses failed to believe God and responded in anger. The Israelites after hearing God’s voice on the mountain, soon left God for the worship of two calves, a pattern that would follow through their history. David was told he would not fail to have a son on the throne if only he and his sons obeyed God. David, a man after his own heart, committed adultery and murder. And his sons after him failed. From the time Adam sinned all men have fallen short of the glory of God. Every covenantal relationship God made with man, man failed. No man has been able to keep a covenantal relationship with God, we have all, you and I, sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. These covenantal promises however pointed to the one who was to come, the Messiah, who would fulfill every covenantal relationship between man and God. The Messiah in order to save mankind had to come in and fulfill all the covenantal requirements of mankind. He had to be the perfect Adam, the perfect Noah, the perfect Abraham, the perfect Moses, the perfect Israel, the perfect David. The Gospels show that Jesus is the true Israel, the true King sitting on David’s throne, the true Moses who delivers his people, the true Noah in whom we are saved from the wrath of God, etc. The Messiah also had to obey the law of Moses. In short, he had to be the perfect human. And in saying that it means he had to be fully human. And to be perfect and fully human means he had to submit himself to God. He had to have the source of his life in God. He had to worship the only true God. This is very important, Jesus had to be the perfect human in every way that meant. If he did not become human in every way, then there is no salvation for mankind. So, to be clear, if the Messiah did not obey and submit himself to the Father, did not worship God as the only true God, did not obey the law of Moses, did not have his source of life in God, did not take dominion and sit on the throne of David, does not conquer evil and bring the whole earth under his dominion, did not fulfill fully every aspect of mankind’s covenantal relationship with God, then there is no salvation for anyone. In His humanity and as our second Adam, the Messiah fully accomplished as a man what no man could do. Whether you believe Jesus is God, a man, or an angel, or the first born, you must believe this – that Jesus fully accomplishes the covenantal relationship of man with God. This is necessary for him to be the Messiah and to bring salvation to men. Jesus is our second Adam. If you do not believe this, then you do not know the one whom the Father has sent and placed his seal as the Messiah and you have no part in him nor in eternal life. And if you do not know Jesus, then you do not know the Father. So yes, I do believe that Jesus submitted himself to the Father and because of his perfect obedience, he lived and found his life in every word that came from Father, and was approved of by the Father. Since the Father and the Son are not the same person, they have in all eternity lived for the other, so it was not a hard thing for the Son to empty himself and submit to His Father. As the Psalm says, “Then I said, ‘Behold, I come; In the scroll of the book it is written of me. I delight to do Your will, O my God; Your Law is within my heart.’”
Hebrews 5 states that Jesus, “learned obedience”
Or as Philippians 2 states, “Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.”
Jesus nor God, are like us. The reason Jesus says, “The greatest among you shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.” is because this is the very nature of the Trinitarian God. None of the Godhead live for themselves, but live for the other. There is no evil pride in God.
So, to be perfectly clear, did Jesus need the approval of God the Father? The answer is “yes, without it there would be no salvation for mankind”.
And I will add to this statement. When you say Jesus is a different person from the Father, yes, we would say yes, we agree? When you say Jesus is the Son of God, yes, we would say yes, we agree? When you say Jesus was in submission to the Father, again yes, we would say yes, we agree? These are essential to the Gospel and without which no man would be saved. Nor is this contradictory to Trinitarian beliefs. No instead they are fundamental beliefs of Trinitarians. Trinitarians fully a hundred percent believe these things.
Ed, I hope this comes across gently, when talking with someone who believes in the Trinity, you have to understand what they believe in order to present a case for what you believe. When talking with one another we must be honest and true. When you ask a question like the one you did, you have to be willing to go deeper to present your case. Show me how is your point differs from what Trinitarians believe? Making a statement that Trinitarians believe is not and argument against Trinitarian belief, but instead only saying you agree with us on this point. And there are some points we agree on. One of them being that Jesus needed the Father’s approval. What I am presenting here is not stubbornness or “I have made up my mind”, what I am presenting is actual fundamental teaching of the doctrine of the Trinity. So, if you are wanting to talk to someone who believes in the Trinity, these are issues you must address if you are to obey the scripture command, “in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect”. And we ought to have confidence to do so. The scripture states, “For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh, for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses. We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ . . .”. I have confidence in this, which is why I don’t feel the need to defend the Trinity, but it is also why I feel like it is necessary if what you believe is true, for you to keep pressing in, because if what you say is true it ought to be powerful enough to handle something like the doctrine of the Trinity. I have confidence that God’s word breaks down strongholds, even those in my own heart. It is definitely constantly breaking down my own strongholds. We must have courage and confidence in the Father to press into what the scriptures have to say about these matters. I believe the goal for both of us is to not push our own theology, but instead to push each other deeper into what the scripture has to say.
The question can be asked of you, “Do you believe Jesus has God’s seal of approval?” This is an important question, because our salvation depends on whether you believe Jesus is the Messiah or not. Most of our discussion has centered on whether Jesus is God, but we also, I believe we both agree, must believe he is the Messiah. Do you believe that the Messiah completely fulfilled every covenantal relationship between God and man, and was approved by the Father as such? Do you believe he has brought us into the New Covenant? Do you believe he is the second Adam? Do you believe he fully and completely restores our relationship with God? Do you believe we have been adopted as children of God? Do you believe that God has sealed us confirming through His Holy Spirit that we are His?
The scripture says of the Jesus, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.” If God approves of the work of Jesus and is pleased, what more do we have to offer God for our salvation? There is no longer any boasting, but instead a trusting in our Messiah, who says in him are the fountains of life and that whoever eats of his body and drinks of his blood has eternal life.
So again, I will ask, “Do you believe Jesus has the God’s seal of approved, has he completed the covenantal requirements as our Messiah, or must we also prove our own worth by completing another covenantal test just as Adam did, in a sense (at least without your explaining it to me) becoming our own 3rd Adam? I am not saying you believe in a “3rd Adam”, but I need you to explain your position and why you believe this. Do you believe Jesus was the Messiah, or just a payment to cover the fall and our sin (again I am not sure what you believe, I ask this because it the only thing you have presented so far, would love to hear more)?
And please hear me, when I ask these questions, its not to prove you are wrong, its to try to get you to explain to me on a deeper level, what you believe. I need more than a short answer. You said for yourself it took you years to come to your conclusion. It would be dishonest of me not to ask these questions and wrestle with it. I genuinely want to know who you believe Jesus is and what he accomplished. I want to know if you believe he received God’s seal of approval and what that means to you. You haven’t talked much on what it means for Jesus to be the Messiah. So, I am not making the statement that you don’t believe in the Messiah. I am making the statement I don’t know what you believe about the Messiah. And who the Messiah is and what he has accomplished for us is very important.
Ed, I expect the same level of questioning on your part to me. Please feel free to ask me hard questions? I believe the scriptures can handle it and break down strongholds. That is the power of the Gospel message. I would be disappointed if you didn’t ask difficult questions or didn’t present things that were challenging. Of course, it is going to be challenging, your asking me to fundamentally change what I believe for all my life. Of course, I will have hard questions. And I suspect the same is with you. Hard questions and conversations does not mean there isn’t dialogue though or we are not listening to each other. You must point me to the scriptures that show that I am wrong. We cannot stand on our theology, we must submit to the scripture alone. And if I am wrong, I want to know that. And so, I will continue to ask questions and expect the same kindness from you.
The question I asked (I will keep this brief since the letter is already long and I want to give you a chance to respond to what I have presented above): What did Jesus do for us as the Messiah? What does he accomplish for us? My answer is “everything”. To “Does Jesus fully restore us into a covenantal relationship with God?” My answer is “yes”, Jesus says, “Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever” and “All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” Because the Messiah reconciles us fully to God, there is not work on my part that can change what God has set his seal upon. And God has set his seal on those who have faith in Jesus, looking to him not only as the author of their faith but as the finisher of their faith. So the idea of God setting his seal on Jesus is an important one, proof that the one I hope in is the Messiah, the only way, the truth and the life. No one comes the Father except through the Messiah. None of our efforts can bring us before God or place us in a better standing with God or provide for us a way to the Father, then the work already done by the Son, in whom the Father is well pleased, who because he had God’s seal upon him, is our only way to the Father. Jesus is our eternal life.
So now the question is in your corner. What did Jesus do for us as our Messiah? What do you believe Messiah means? What does he accomplish for us? Does Jesus fully restore us into a covenantal relationship with God? How are we brought into this great salvation? Help me to understand what you believe.
John 6
Jesus Feeds the Five Thousand
6 After this Jesus went away to the other side of the Sea of Galilee, which is the Sea of Tiberias. 2 And a large crowd was following him, because they saw the signs that he was doing on the sick. 3 Jesus went up on the mountain, and there he sat down with his disciples. 4 Now the Passover, the feast of the Jews, was at hand. 5 Lifting up his eyes, then, and seeing that a large crowd was coming toward him, Jesus said to Philip, “Where are we to buy bread, so that these people may eat?” 6 He said this to test him, for he himself knew what he would do. 7 Philip answered him, “Two hundred denarii[a] worth of bread would not be enough for each of them to get a little.” 8 One of his disciples, Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother, said to him, 9 “There is a boy here who has five barley loaves and two fish, but what are they for so many?” 10 Jesus said, “Have the people sit down.” Now there was much grass in the place. So the men sat down, about five thousand in number. 11 Jesus then took the loaves, and when he had given thanks, he distributed them to those who were seated. So also the fish, as much as they wanted. 12 And when they had eaten their fill, he told his disciples, “Gather up the leftover fragments, that nothing may be lost.” 13 So they gathered them up and filled twelve baskets with fragments from the five barley loaves left by those who had eaten. 14 When the people saw the sign that he had done, they said, “This is indeed the Prophet who is to come into the world!”
15 Perceiving then that they were about to come and take him by force to make him king, Jesus withdrew again to the mountain by himself.
Jesus Walks on Water
16 When evening came, his disciples went down to the sea, 17 got into a boat, and started across the sea to Capernaum. It was now dark, and Jesus had not yet come to them. 18 The sea became rough because a strong wind was blowing. 19 When they had rowed about three or four miles,[b] they saw Jesus walking on the sea and coming near the boat, and they were frightened. 20 But he said to them, “It is I; do not be afraid.” 21 Then they were glad to take him into the boat, and immediately the boat was at the land to which they were going.
I Am the Bread of Life
22 On the next day the crowd that remained on the other side of the sea saw that there had been only one boat there, and that Jesus had not entered the boat with his disciples, but that his disciples had gone away alone. 23 Other boats from Tiberias came near the place where they had eaten the bread after the Lord had given thanks. 24 So when the crowd saw that Jesus was not there, nor his disciples, they themselves got into the boats and went to Capernaum, seeking Jesus.
25 When they found him on the other side of the sea, they said to him, “Rabbi, when did you come here?” 26 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you are seeking me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate your fill of the loaves. 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.” 28 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” 30 So they said to him, “Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’” 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.”
35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
41 So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?” 43 Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. 44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me— 46 not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father. 47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread[c] the fathers ate, and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59 Jesus[d] said these things in the synagogue, as he taught at Capernaum.
The Words of Eternal Life
60 When many of his disciples heard it, they said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?” 61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were grumbling about this, said to them, “Do you take offense at this? 62 Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) 65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
66 After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him. 67 So Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you want to go away as well?” 68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life, 69 and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.” 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.” 71 He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray him.
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Calvin’s Commentary on the Bible
57.As the living Father hath sent me. Hitherto Christ has explained the manner in which we must become partakers of life. He now comes to speak of the principal cause, for the first source of life is in the Father. But he meets an objection, for it might be thought that he took away from God what belonged to him, when he made himself the cause of life. He makes himself, therefore, to be the Author of life, in such a manner, as to acknowledge that there was another who gave him what he administers to others.
Let us observe, that this discourse also is accommodated to the capacity of those to whom Christ was speaking; for it is only with respect to his flesh that he compares himself to the Father. For though the Father is the beginning of life, yet the eternal Word himself is strictly life But the eternal Divinity of Christ is not the present subject; for he exhibits himself such as he was manifested to the world, clothed with our flesh.
I also live on account of the Father. This does not apply to his Divinity simply, nor does it apply to his human nature simply and by itself, but it is a description of the Son of God manifested in the flesh. Besides, we know that it is not unusual with Christ to ascribe to the Father every thing Divine which he had in himself. It must be observed, however, that he points out here three degrees of life. In the first rank is the living Father, who is the source, but remote and hidden. Next follows the Son, who is exhibited to us as an open fountain, and by whom life flows to us. The third is, the life which we draw from him. We now perceive what is stated to amount to this, that God the Father, in whom life dwells, is at a great distance from us, and that Christ, placed between us, is the second cause of life, in order that what would otherwise be concealed in God may proceed from him to us.
